Wednesday, June 25, 2014

Hilary post continued

Posted by 2DI4 at 11:04 AM

I feel good about my response to Hilary. I don't think the church operates in a vacuum and while I don't believe the church is subject to public opinion, the history of the church and blacks receiving the priesthood reveal that many things happened BECAUSE the sentiment of the time. Joseph Smith ordained many black saints to the priesthood. This was ended only with Brigham Young. Any statements made by apostles and even the prophet at the time and any other time when they were denied the priesthood is NOT church doctrine. The church admits as much on its website now.

This is why I hate when people speculate. There is much said about why women don't have the priesthood by various members of the church. Preistesses are mentioned in the scriptures however and in the temple most of the ordinances I am able to perform begin with me stating, "Having authority" or in one instance "Under proper authority" this is priesthood power whether I ever "receive" the priesthood or not. If women are given the priesthood I don't have a problem with it. If I never receive it however, I don't have a problem either.

I am certainly not going to campaign to get ordained. Ordain women has opened the dialogue. I don't approve of treating the church like the government. Our leadership is not voted on and we don't remove people if we don't like them in the positions they fill. My friend Hilary said the timing of our revelation is too convenient and I suppose it can seem that way to many people. If I didn't have my personal spiritual experiences I could come to the same conclusion. The gospel is NOT something that can be intellectually figured out or proven.

That is more than alright with me. Feelings are the most significant experiences for anyone. We love our family and that is something we feel intensely. Yes we spend time with them AND our parents care for us as we grow up BUUUT the feelings are what give these relationships validity. You don't fall in love with someone you don't know BUUUT once you do fall for them they are the source of your greatest joy and your greatest pain. All of this explains why to me a testimony is so powerful.

Could this Kelley lady be ahead of her time like my non-member friend Hilary suggests? OF COURSE!!! It is possible. Does that mean I'm going to join her movement or ANY movement and actively campaign against the church? NEVER!!! That is the whole problem I have with her and ordain women.

I get annoyed with all the speculators who discuss how they don't want the priesthood and that the Lord doesn't want us to hold it, that somehow for women to hold the priesthood it would undermine men. NOOO! that's not true OR it could be BUUUT it has not been revealed and is at best speculation. Motherhood is also often cited as why women don't have the priesthood. AGAIN where the hell does it EVER say that???!!!

I just read an article that captures my feelings completely:


Op-ed: Changing the church: How Ordain Women gets it wrong
BY ASHLEY ISAACSON WOOLLEY
PUBLISHED: JUNE 16, 2014 10:00AM
UPDATED: JUNE 13, 2014 04:51PM
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Steve Griffin | The Salt Lake Tribune Media members scramble to keep ahead of members and supporters of the Ordain Women, led by Hannah Wheelwright and Kate Kelly, center, as they walk to the Tabernacle on Temple Square to seek standby tickets to the all-male general priesthood meeting in Salt Lake City, Utah Saturday, April 5, 2014.
As an LDS graduate of Harvard Divinity School, which trains clergy and religious scholars, I might be expected to align with those who believe the LDS Church should ordain women. I do not. While I respect their opinions and desires, I do not share them. More importantly, I am uncomfortable with their methods for seeking change in the church, which work well for other causes like civil rights campaigns in the public square but are, in my view, inappropriate for advancing personal views in the LDS Church.
First, I do not support the creation of any outside organization to publicly agitate on internal church matters. As a member of the church, I have committed to sustain its leaders. “Sustain” need not mean “always agree with,” but to my mind, surely it means not creating a publicity-seeking organization in direct opposition to the church’s position, inviting members to openly oppose both the church’s policies and its reasonable requests. It is possible to air concerns in a productive, straightforward, and private (rather than divisive, symbolic, and purposefully public) manner.
Second, I do not believe in making demands of church leaders. A church is a voluntary private association based on shared convictions (one of which, for Mormonism, is the inspired calling of leaders). Members of the church may appropriately advocate change, but not demand it as one would demand a civil right or insist that leaders accept their personal views. The name of the organization, “Ordain Women,” is a grammatical imperative that feels inappropriate to me.
Finally, I have neither the divine calling nor the necessary perspective to resolve complicated doctrinal issues for the church. Intellectual discussion and questioning of doctrine is the privilege of all members. But to claim that my own interpretation is right for the whole church is beyond the scope of my authority. That is, I believe, what prophets are for.
I embrace the Mormon doctrine that God gives knowledge “line upon line, precept upon precept.” Sometimes the church changes suddenly; sometimes it changes slowly over generations. Changes could be precipitated by individual members making perspectives known, but it is not inevitably so. In any case, it is not up to any person — not even a prophet — to decide the timing or content of revelation.
Ashley Isaacson Woolley has a master of Theological Studies from Harvard Divinity School and a J.D. from Stanford Law School. She is a scholar, editor, wife, mother and Mormon. She lives in Switzerland.
Alma 30
42 Behold, I know that thou believest, but thou art possessed with a lying spirit, and ye have put off the Spirit of God that it may have no place in you; but the devil has power over you, and he doth carry you about, working devices that he may destroy the children of God.
 44 But Alma said unto him: Thou hast had signs enough; will ye tempt your God? Will ye say, Show unto me a sign, when ye have the testimony of all these thy brethren, and also all the holy prophets? The scriptures are laid before thee, yea, and all things denote there is a God; yea, even the earth, and all things that are upon the face of it, yea, and its motion, yea, and also all the planetswhich move in their regular form do witness that there is a Supreme Creator.
58 And it came to pass that they were all convinced of the wickedness of Korihor; therefore they were all converted again unto the Lord; and this put an end to the iniquity after the manner of Korihor. And Korihor did go about from house to house, begging food for his support.
59 And it came to pass that as he went forth among the people, yea, among a people who had separated themselves from the Nephites and called themselves Zoramites, being led by a man whose name was Zoram—and as he went forth amongst them, behold, he was run upon and trodden down, even until he wasdead.
 60 And thus we see the end of him who perverteth the ways of the Lord; and thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day, but doth speedily drag them down to hell.










 

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